Daniel 10:5-8
New International Version (NIV)
5 I looked up and there before me was a man dressed in linen, with a belt of fine gold from Uphaz around his waist.6 His body was like topaz, his face like lightning, his eyes like flaming torches, his arms and legs like the gleam of burnished bronze, and his voice like the sound of a multitude.
7 I, Daniel, was the only one who saw the vision; those who were with me did not see it, but such terror overwhelmed them that they fled and hid themselves. 8 So I was left alone,gazing at this great vision; I had no strength left, my face turned deathly pale and I was helpless.
7 I, Daniel, was the only one who saw the vision; those who were with me did not see it, but such terror overwhelmed them that they fled and hid themselves. 8 So I was left alone,gazing at this great vision; I had no strength left, my face turned deathly pale and I was helpless.
When Daniel said he alone saw the vision, he didn't mean that God didn't see the vision. The narrative was between Daniel and men, God wasn't included in the narrative. Similarly, in Isaiah we find God contrasting himself to the false gods. The narrative didn't include agency. It was a comparison between the false gods and the true God. I found that in the Old Testament the Psalmist said that God alone does wondrous things, but in the New testament I also found God made wonders through the hands of men. God used those men, and those men were not Part of God. (Psalms 72:18; 136:4; cf. Job 9:8; Acts 19:11).
How did God create all things through Jesus?
The only example that I can give is when God divided the sea through the hand of Moses. The power was not from the hand of Moses, because it was from God. Both there hands were involved but it was God's hand that divided the sea. (Read Exodus Chapter 14) So similarly, when God created all things through Jesus, I can say the Father created it by himself and his hands were also involved in the creation. (Psalms 8:3-5; 102:25; cf. Hebrews 1:10; Isaiah 64:8; 66:2)
See: Does God "alone" forgive sins ?
How did God create all things through Jesus?
The only example that I can give is when God divided the sea through the hand of Moses. The power was not from the hand of Moses, because it was from God. Both there hands were involved but it was God's hand that divided the sea. (Read Exodus Chapter 14) So similarly, when God created all things through Jesus, I can say the Father created it by himself and his hands were also involved in the creation. (Psalms 8:3-5; 102:25; cf. Hebrews 1:10; Isaiah 64:8; 66:2)
See: Does God "alone" forgive sins ?
Dear all;
ReplyDeleteThe answer is that God, the Father, never said that he alone created all things at Isaiah 44:24!
In addition to previous explanation of Isaiah 44:24 in which I quoted Daniel 4:30 to demonstrate that Nebuccadnezzar was not saying that he alone built Babylon, but that it was his idea; his project; I have added the following explanation and believe it will help many of you who are involved in Idolatrous worship of Holy Spirit within the false trinitarian dogma:
Let us assume trinitarians are right! and the word "alone" at Isaiah 44:24 means exactly that, i.e. "No one else involved"! Let us accept the trinitarian version/explanation:
Let us now apply the word alone where it actually applies, without reading into the scripture what it does not say:
The word "alone" and "by myself" at Isaiah 44:24 refer to specific creative activities not to the totality of all creation. It would be stretching the scripture at Isaiah 44:24 beyond what it actually says to extend the word "alone" to all creative activities or tasks.
Let us analyse the Scripture : The scripture reads in my KJV as follows:"
24 Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"
Notice that what God says he did alone is "stretching forth the heavens"! unless you have another scripture which at least says that creating the heavens exclusively involved stretching them forth only (without any additional task or activity required); I fail to see how the above statement is saying that "God created all things alone". It appears that trinitarians read it into the scripture, but it is not stated there!!!
It could indeed be the case that God, the Father "alone" stretched forth the heavens, but unless we are sure that creating the heavens involved the above activity or task only; we can not conclude that God, the Father alone created the heavens, let alone concluding that God, the Father alone created the universe!
Similarly, notice that what God says he did by himself is "spreading the earth"! again unless you have another scripture which at least says that creating the earth exclusively involved spreading it only (without any additional task); I fail to see how the above statement can vaguely be equated to saying that "God created all things by himself alone". It appears again that trinitarians read into the scripture what it does not say!
Again, It could indeed be true that God, the Father "spread the earth by himself", but unless we are sure that creating the earth involved only the above activity or task; we can not conclude that God, the Father alone created the earth, let alone concluding that God, the Father alone created the universe!
At Isaiah 44:24; God does not say for example: "I am the Lord that maketh all things alone" or "I am the Lord that maketh all things by myself"!
Only, one of the above exact statements, is what would make your interpretation correct, but I am sorry that is not what the bible says at Isaiah 44:24!
Please study the scriptures carefully.
Thanks,
Attie Luks
The text is lucidly clear, God who is the Father was totally alone at the creation Jesus was not there! Words do have meanings!
ReplyDeleteThis is poor exegetically stated. I'm not a Trinitarian at all. I take this verse to mean that the "by myself" and "alone" are for emphasis only and actually aren't needed to prove that God created, made, formed and did everything as the sole Person doing the work.
ReplyDeleteAll of the personal pronouns in this chapter by themselves are enough to prove that to be the case, not to mention the chapter before or after.
The myself and alone are used for exaggeration effect on God's part, because Israel was worshipping other heathen God's. For emphasis sake are those words even there, to prove he doctrine of him being Alpine in creation, they aren't even needed, God to have, yes, needed, no.
It's amazing to me how this verse, Isaiah 44:24, which seems so simple and plain, is dissected and ripped apart by some people in a desperate attempt to claim that it doesn't mean what it plainly says. God alone is Creator, nobody helped Him, and He didn't need or want help. Why would God, who is all powerful, need anyone to help Him do anything? If Jesus was "helping" God create, if Jesus was some kind of ethereal "agent" or "instrument" of creation, then why don't we see that in this verse? Why would God leave out such an important detail as that? So, then, everyone, before the New Testament was written, was left with a false impression about who was doing the creating here, and only after the New Testament was written could we finally get it right? Come on, people.
ReplyDelete